For Immediate Release
新闻秘书办公室
2007年6月25日Dana Perino的新闻简报
白宫会议中心简报室1:17 P.M. EDT
[...]
Q Dana, as long as we're talking about branches of government, can you go back to Vice President Cheney again, the argument that he's not part of the executive branch. Does the President believe he's part of the executive branch?
多发性硬化症。PERINO: I think that that is an interesting constitutional question, and I think that lots of people can debate it. I think when我们在谈论上周的EO, we've gone over that several times. You probably don't want me to go over it again. But the Vice President -- any Vice President has legislative and executive functions.
Every Vice President has legislative and executive functions. The executive functions are given to him by the President. For example, the Vice President's paycheck comes from the Senate. So these are -- that's an interesting constitutional question. When we are talking about this EO, it is separate and apart from -- the President and the Vice President oversee the executive agencies. Supreme Court precedent shows that the Vice President and the President are not seen as an agency when it comes to executive orders.
Q I know that's your argument about an agency, but it's very separate from the argument the Vice President is making. And what is the President -- what is the White House's view of the argument the Vice President is making on whether or not he's part of the executive branch?
问：我认为 - 我的意思是，信息显然是 -
多发性硬化症。PERINO: I'm not opining on it, because the President did not intend for the Vice President to be subject as an agency in that section of the EO.
问这是一个entirely different argument. So you don't Vice President's --
多发性硬化症。佩里诺：不，是一样的 -
Q You don't support the Vice President --
多发性硬化症。PERINO: I'm not opining on it either way.
Q But, Dana, how could the Vice President, earlier in the administration, argue he didn't have to turn over records about the energy task force, for example, because he was a member of the executive branch? He clearly stated that.
多发性硬化症。PERINO: You could ask the Supreme Court who ruled in his favor.
Q But he did not say, I'm a member of the legislative branch, as well, so I don't have to -- I mean, he clearly stated that there was strong executive power and he didn't have to turn over these records. Now, when it suits his interest, he seems to be saying a different legal argument.
多发性硬化症。PERINO: Look, I'm not a legal scholar and there's plenty of them that you can find in Washington, D.C. But just that very point that you're making there shows that he has functions in both the executive branch and the legislative branch.
问：但他没有提及这些职能 - 政府开始时的早期法律论点中的双重功能。他只使用行政分支论点。
多发性硬化症。PERINO: Look, you can try to call his office and try to get more information. I'm not opining on his argument that his office is making. What I can tell you is that the President did not intend for him to be treated separately from himself in this executive order regarding the ISOO office.
问：不过，您也提到片刻，副总统从参议院获得薪水。
多发性硬化症。PERINO: Yes.
Q Does the White House then also believe he should get funding for the Vice President's office from the legislative branch instead of from the executive branch?
多发性硬化症。PERINO: I don't know. These are not in position --
Q Well, you just noted that. You just noted he gets his paycheck --
多发性硬化症。佩里诺：我只是 - 我注意到这是因为我试图说明他在立法机关和行政部门中都有角色。
Q But the National Archives documents they want have to do with his executive branch functions; I mean, the secret documents one assumes are from his duties of Vice -- as Vice President.
佩里诺女士:在总统的行政命令and the Vice President are discharged separately from agencies, in which -- it might be awkward if the President, who is the supervisor of this office, was asking that office to come in and investigate themselves. And in this executive order the President is saying that the Vice President is not different than him.
Q When did he decide that? Just in 2003? I mean, he --
多发性硬化症。佩里诺：就行政命令而言？我需要回去 -
问他在那之前做了几年。他只是从内心的利益中做到了，或者 -
多发性硬化症。佩里诺：我认为是这样。（笑声。）
问好的。The office also has a 30-year history, which is part of why the National Archives Oversight Office is concerned, because other Presidents had provided -- other White Houses had provided this information. And so it really is a break with a pattern. Why is that necessary?
多发性硬化症。PERINO: I don't know why the EO was amended in 2003, and I can try to go back and find out. What I do know is that when the President wrote this EO, it's clear in the reading of it that he does not intend for the Vice President to be seen as separate from himself. And they are not asking someone who is subordinate to them to come in and investigate them. And I think that the ISOO office has had only a complaint about the Vice President's office, not about other places within the executive branch. And so that can be resolved either by the Justice Department or, as I am telling you, as the President's spokesman, he did not intend for the Vice President to be seen as separate from himself.
Q Is the President satisfied that Alberto Gonzales has not responded yet, after five, six months of a request by this office to have this issue mediated?
多发性硬化症。PERINO: I have not asked the President if he's concerned about that, and I would ask you to call over at the Justice Department to find out about their timing.
Q Should Alberto Gonzales recuse himself because he was White House Counsel?
多发性硬化症。PERINO: I don't think that's necessary.
Q I mean, if the argument was so clear that you're making about he wasn't part of the agency, then why did he make that argument, coming back? That's not the argument he made.
多发性硬化症。PERINO: I don't know why he made the arguments that he did, but --
Q Apparently it wasn't so clear to them.
多发性硬化症。PERINO: It might not have been clear to them, and I don't know all the discussions that they had back and forth between the Vice President's office and ISOO. What I'm telling you is that in the reading of the EO, and in asking about the interpretation of it, that's the answer I've got.
Q Dana, is the White House comfortable with the way the Vice President is being portrayed in this Washington Post four-part series? I mean, two installments have come out now suggesting almost that he's out of control, he's operating around the President, that people like John Ashcroft, when he was Attorney General, actually had to deal with the Vice President, not the President, had to argue, I'm the chief law enforcement officer and should be included in discussions, legal arguments about how detainees are being held -- is the White House comfortable with this portrayal?
多发性硬化症。PERINO: You've heard me say before that we don't do book reviews from the White House, and I think that that would -- that the length of this article --
Q This isn't a book -- it's not a book.
多发性硬化症。佩里诺（Perino）：看，我认为任何一个 - 正在谈论的内容都是分类的 - 处理机密问题，并在9/11对我们国家的攻击之后，我不会对这些问题进行评价。金博宝正规网址我不会说文章的一种或另一种方式。我要说的是，一个 - 第一，这个国家没有再次受到攻击；第二，我们所做的一切都是合法的。
问那不是他的问题。
问,但一个具体的例子。有一个Bybee memo that was classified at one point, but has since been made public, and it's been on Capitol Hill, it's been out there, it's been in newspapers -- the Bybee memo from 2002 dealing with torture. And it basically -- this story today portrays the Vice President's team as basically helping to draft that memo about how detainees are going to be held and tried, et cetera, where the limits are on torture, and that basically it took two years before the Secretary of State Colin Powell and the National Secretary Advisor Condoleezza Rice even knew that this memo had been written -- this vast policy on the war on terror. The Secretary of State and the National Security Advisor did not know for two years. Is the President comfortable with the Vice President essentially cutting out two of his top national security officials on this critical policy?
多发性硬化症。佩里诺：看，我不太了解该级别的内部审议。我不知道，我不会对任何类型的内部审议发表评论。
Q Do you really think that's the way a White House should operate?
多发性硬化症。PERINO: Look, I've been around not as long as a lot of people, but long enough to see how the process works here, and I can assure you that the debate is vigorous, and it is held -- people have strongly-held views, and they voice them, and they voice them loudly. I am very comfortable with the process that we have, in terms of how those debates get settled.
Q But how you can say it's a vigorous debate if the Secretary of State and the National Security Advisor were not involved in debate for two years, two years?
多发性硬化症。佩里诺：埃德，我没有对此发表评论。
多发性硬化症。佩里诺：我都不对此发表评论。
但是你怎么能说——如果你不commenting on it, how can you --
多发性硬化症。佩里诺：我在评论我在白宫的个人经历。
Q But how can you make that claim, though, that there's a vigorous debate? The top two national security officials were not involved in that debate. How could it be vigorous?
多发性硬化症。PERINO: I don't know that to be true, Ed, so I'm not commenting --
Q So is it false?
多发性硬化症。PERINO: I don't know that to be true, so I'm not commenting on it.
Q Can you send someone out here who can? You're stonewalling. Is the President a member of the executive branch? Is he answerable to any law, to any executive order? I mean, what is this? What's going on here?
多发性硬化症。佩里诺（Perino）：总统海伦（Helen）当然是行政部门负责人。
Q对美国人民有任何责任吗？
多发性硬化症。佩里诺：绝对。
Q Does the Vice President see top secrets in this administration as a member of the executive branch? Does he attend NSC meetings?
多发性硬化症。PERINO: In his executive duties, as discharged by the President, he does see classified materials, yes.
Q And he is allowed to?
多发性硬化症。PERINO: Victoria, go ahead.
Q We should get someone out here who can answer our questions.
Q Does the United States practice cruelty?
多发性硬化症。PERINO: No. We have gone over this several times. I'd refer you to all the previous comments that we've had in the past. Hadley -- Steve Hadley came and briefed you all in September of 2006, the President has answered public questions about this, so has the Secretary of State on multiple occasions in front of Congress, so has the Attorney General. And we have maintained that we have protected this country in a way that does not involve torture.
Q But there's a difference between cruelty and torture, is my understanding. The cruelty, by definition, is imposition of severe physical and mental pain or suffering, which is different from torture, which is --
多发性硬化症。PERINO: I'm not commenting on any type of techniques or anything else that is used in order to help get us information in order to prevent terrorist attacks on this country. I'm just not going to do it.
Q But you would say that we do not practice cruel --
多发性硬化症。PERINO: I can tell you flatly, as has been previously stated by the President himself and by members of his Cabinet, that this administration has not used torture.
Q What? You've got photographs.
多发性硬化症。佩里诺：戈亚尔。
Q Two questions. One, -- schools (inaudible) President talking about No Child Left Behind. My question is that as far as No Child Left Behind, according to a report, U.S. education system has gone down and violence has increased in many schools here, and as far as children are concerned.
多发性硬化症。佩里诺：您的问题是什么？
Q Immigrant children are doing better in schools, but is the President going to talk about as far as increasing violence in schools today, and education system has gone down?
多发性硬化症。PERINO: The President today is going to talk about the move to reauthorize No Child Left Behind so that we can make sure that every child is reading at grade level by 2014 and that we have accountability for students, parents and taxpayers.
Q And second, if I may --
多发性硬化症。PERINO: Bret, going to go to Bret.
Q Can I just rewind to the executive order one more time? I'm trying to see, is the White House saying that you disagree with the argument the Vice President's office is making?
多发性硬化症。PERINO: No, I didn't say that.
Q I know, but what are you saying? I don't get it, really. Is the White House at odds with what the Vice President is saying the reason he's not --
多发性硬化症。佩里诺：我没有对此进行关注，也不会对此发表评论。但是我的意思是，我认为这在这方面是无关紧要的。在EO中，副总统和总统被视为同一。以及Isoo提出的论点，即是否应将副总统视为代理商，这是对此的分歧。那是他们的权利。他们可以对此有分歧。但是总统从来没有打算让副总统在该行政命令中被视为机构。
问：那是理由。我说的是在总统签署时遵守行政命令。是副总统 -
多发性硬化症。PERINO: Yes, absolutely. The Vice President is in compliance with the executive order, you bet.
Q Dana, is the Office of the President and the Office of the Vice President -- not are they being treated the same way -- are they acting in the same way, in terms of --
多发性硬化症。佩里诺（Perino）：当副总统正在履行职责时，总统要求他在执行职责下履行职责时，是的，他正在履行与总统所做的类似职责。
问：档案馆办公室是否能够从总统办公室获得一定程度的遵守情况，因为它无法从副总统办公室获得？
多发性硬化症。PERINO: The Vice President is in compliance with the EO, as is the President. So that shouldn't be a question.
Q So any kind of inspections they want to make, any kind of procedures that they want to --
多发性硬化症。佩里诺（Perino）：这不适用于总统或副总统，他们有责任出院和监督。
Q Does the NSC? Does the National Security Council?
多发性硬化症。佩里诺：NSC确实遵守了。
问：加沙英国广播公司（BBC）囚犯艾伦·约翰斯顿（Alan Johnston）的案件变得更加严重。本届政府是否有任何建议，要么对持有他的人，还是英国人赞成对军事行动的反对，或者您赞成合规 -
多发性硬化症。佩里诺（Perino）：我们站在我们的英国盟友后面，要求他不公正地举行立即结束，并让他安全地归还给他的家人。
问：总统的战略是否有任何愿望遵守他们的某些要求 -
多发性硬化症。PERINO: I'm not going to comment on that, and I have to refer you to the British authorities for that. They're leading that.
Q Dana，英国 -
多发性硬化症。PERINO: I'm sorry, I was going to go to Roger, and then I'll come back.
Q I think she's got the same question.
多发性硬化症。PERINO: How convenient.
Q Any new information on Tony Blair becoming an international envoy? And has the President talked to him in the past two days?
多发性硬化症。佩里诺：不，我不相信总统在过去几天里已经与他交谈。而且，如果还有更多报告，我们会尽快通知您。
问：有报道说他明天将被命名。ReportsReports那是真的吗？
多发性硬化症。佩里诺：不是我知道。
Q Back to the Oversight Office. They've asked for an opinion from the Justice Department -- you're declaring from the podium that the Vice President is in compliance. So this sounds like there's nothing for the Justice Department to render an opinion on.
多发性硬化症。PERINO: If the Justice Department wants to review it -- and it is under review, as you pointed out -- they've not responded yet, but what I'm saying is that -- I hate to be repetitive, but -- (laughter) -- the President meant for the Vice President to be one and the same with him in this executive order.
问：听起来像是监督办公室在等待意见，他们不应该屏住呼吸。您已经渲染了它。
多发性硬化症。佩里诺：我已经给了他们总统的解释是什么。
Q You mean complying with the order, you don't mean "complying," that he's turning over documents. You just mean --
多发性硬化症。佩里诺：他们符合行政命令，正确。
问 - 正如总统所读的那样，遵守高管 - 遵守高管。
多发性硬化症。佩里诺（Perino）：正如总统打算的那样 - 不仅是我读。
Q Has the President turned over documents and allowed inspections that the Vice President's office has not done?
多发性硬化症。PERINO: In terms of the White House office?
问是的。
多发性硬化症。佩里诺：我不相信我们做到了。不。
Q So the White House also has not allowed those same inspections that the Vice President's office --
多发性硬化症。佩里诺（Perino）：总统作为其主管撤离了ISOO进行这些调查，在总统和副总统不是一部分的机构的现场检查。
Q Okay, so the President has not had those inspections either -- that's what you're saying?
多发性硬化症。PERINO: No.
问好的。国家档案馆是否要求他进行检查？
多发性硬化症。佩里诺：不是我 - 不是我知道。但是再次，正是总统释放了EO，他是唯一的执法者。
问好的。最后，这有点超现实 - 我的意思是，这是怎么可能的 -
多发性硬化症。佩里诺：你在告诉我。
问好的 - 您不能对副总统是否是行政部门的一部分发表意见？
多发性硬化症。佩里诺：我只知道 -
Q It's a little bit like somebody saying, "I don't know if this is my wife or not." (Laughter.)
多发性硬化症。佩里诺：我认为这比这复杂得多。
问不，但是说实话，我的意思是没有 -
多发性硬化症。佩里诺：不，老实说，我认为这比这更复杂。我愿意。
Q But, Dana, one difference is, from this podium came the explanation that the President never intended for this to apply to the Vice President. When there was communication from the counsel of the Vice President's office to ISOO, the rationale was different. It was that there was a split in the duties, the role of the Vice President, and that's where we're getting this -- he's part of the legislative and the executive. So it seems that it was not -- everybody was not on the same page when they were first responding to the National Archives.
多发性硬化症。佩里诺：我不知道一定是真的，但是我可以看到我是否可以从副总统办公室得到更多的解释 - 因为他们本可以在同一论点中考虑一个，我只是- 我没有可以将这两者融合在一起的法律思想。
问：如果要求副总统的一名工作人员移交材料，而工作人员担心如果他们不将其交付，他们会遇到踏板车的情况 - 他们是否有相同的保护？现在，我们谈论的是工作人员，而不是总裁兼副总裁。
多发性硬化症。PERINO: I think you're talking about apples and oranges, because I think that the Vice President and the White House -- the President and the Vice President, I think that extends to their offices and the people who actually work for them, as well.
问：这很重要，因为 -
多发性硬化症。PERINO: I think I just answered it, but I can look into it again.
q dana，在200多年以上，公民班级的每个人都对我们政府的工作方式有一定的了解。这种EO阐明了200多年的宪法奖学金，了解我们的系统的运作方式？
多发性硬化症。佩里诺：也许是我，但我认为每个人都使它比需要的要复杂得多。总统写了一项行政命令；他说 -
问：我说的是副总统说他是否属于行政部门的问题。
多发性硬化症。PERINO: And the point I was trying to make to you before is that I --
Q This really falls into "sky is blue" stuff.
多发性硬化症。佩里诺（Perino）：在过去的两个世纪中，参议院为副总统提供了担任政府成员的职责。我了解他在两个分支机构中都有角色。我是 - 我认为这没有像您试图做到的那样清晰。
问美国副总统是 -
多发性硬化症。PERINO: I think there is no denying that he has functions in both the legislative and the executive branches. That is a fact.
Q But it seems like the Vice President is saying he's not responsible for the rules of either of those --
问是的。
多发性硬化症。佩里诺：不，我认为他在说 - 尤其是在行政部门时 - 是因为他所履行的职责仅由美国总统赋予他。而且，有些副总统在国家安全领域或政策制定领域的表现不如这位副总统。但是，这位副总统被授予执行责任来处理 -
问：但是如何成为另一个分支机构的一部分 - 我想这是值得商bat的 - 但是那是怎么回事？
多发性硬化症。佩里诺：这不是 - 这是无关紧要的，因为总统从来没有打算让副总统受到行政命令的约束。
Q No, he introduced the topic. The Office of the Vice President introduces that into the argument, into the debate; "well, we're not part of the executive branch."
多发性硬化症。PERINO: I think that that is also a fact -- and as I said to Kelly, I'll see if I can get more from the Vice President's office to see if they -- how they connected the two, or if they did.
Q He can argue he's part of both, but he can't possibly argue that he's part of neither. And it seems like he's saying he's part of neither.
多发性硬化症。佩里诺：好的，你也让我完全困惑。
Q He doesn't know his wife -- (Laughter.)
Joni.
问：关于朝鲜的问，BDA问题在2月可以短暂解决。您能评论为什么花了这么长时间吗？转移实际上是今天早上发生的吗？
多发性硬化症。PERINO: The North Koreans have said that the transfer has taken place. For a final confirmation of that, I'd have to refer you to the Treasury Department. And I think it took a long time because it's a complex financial maneuver of which I also don't understand. But the Treasury Department can provide you more information.
Q Can you also comment on -- I mean, do you think that this financial measure was an effective tool for diplomacy?
多发性硬化症。佩里诺（Perino）：我认为我们正在做的是现在正在移动到朝鲜说它将在Yongbyon设施中拆除和停止富集。我刚刚听说克里斯·希尔（Chris Hill）在下午2:00进行简报。今天，他将拥有比我更多的第一手信息。
Q Dana?
佩里诺女士:还有人吗?好的,莱斯。
Q Dana，谢谢。两个问题。首先，总统是否认为大多数美国公民会认为，如果允许踏板车利比被送入监狱，而桑迪·伯杰（Sandy Berger）和玛丽昂·巴里（Marion Barry）仍然自由，那么美国确实在法律上具有平等的正义？
多发性硬化症。佩里诺（Perino）：我将为您提供标准的“无评论”行，les。我知道你有多失望。
问是的。Yesterday New York Times published a column which contended that Vice President Cheney is -- and this is a quote -- "bordering on lunacy" and referring to him as "Crazy
迪克。”还有我的问题：总统和副总统都不会容忍任何提到“塞奇·苏尔兹伯格，左翼疯子”的员工，他们会吗？
多发性硬化症。佩里诺：我们根本不提他。（笑声。）
问：您根本不提他，好的。
多发性硬化症。佩里诺：是吗？
Q Then I'm right?
Q Could I just follow up?
Q The President would not --
多发性硬化症。佩里诺：让我回到吉姆。
Q Just one last big-picture question about -- sort of the cumulative effect of all this. You have this big series in the Post out about the Vice President. You've had this steady series of ways in which it is easy to see that he has created a certain number of questions for you and others to answer in the administration. Does the President consider him a liability, or does he consider him more of a liability now than maybe he did at any point in the past?
多发性硬化症。PERINO: I don't think he thinks of it that way. I think that the President thinks of the Vice President as a very close and trusted advisor; somebody who has nothing but the country's best interest at heart. And I think that there's been a lot of accusations about this Vice President going back for many years. And as much as we would like to always get fabulous, glowing press, that's not always the case. And so we take the good with the bad, in terms of press coverage. But I think that every day the President relies on the Vice President's good advice.
问：鉴于副总统一直在开车的许多计划，想法和政策的方式，您是否认为总统想重新思考，还是应该重新考虑他对副总统的依赖？
多发性硬化症。佩里诺：让我给你三个例子。首先，正如我之前提到的那样，这位总统已经结束了 - 在9/11期间，当时有3,000名我们的公民被恐怖分子杀害。我们没有在土壤上再次遭受恐怖袭击。正如副总统所说，这并不是偶然的。
Secondly, the other policies that this Vice President has worked on include things such as tax cuts, of which the entire country benefited and we continued to feel the benefits from with this good economy. So I think that the Vice President's impact is broader and deeper on lots of good policies that have come out of this White House.
Q Are you saying the end justifies the means, following up on the first part of your answer?
多发性硬化症。PERINO: I don't -- what do you mean --
问：您是说我们还没有其他攻击 -
多发性硬化症。佩里诺： - 我说 -
Q -- therefore everything the Vice President --
多发性硬化症。PERINO: Now, Jim, I think that's a little bit unfair, since about three or five minutes ago I just finished saying and reiterating that this administration has not tortured. But I will say that the policies we put in place -- for example, the terrorist surveillance program, of which we are listening in on phone calls coming into or out of this country, where one person on that phone call is a suspected terrorist -- has saved lives. And that came from General Hayden, now the Director of the CIA. And that's what is not an accident.
Q But does the administration support waterboarding, for example, which is written about again today? It's been considered a war crime since 1901. Do you -- does it --
多发性硬化症。佩里诺：埃德，感谢您尝试。我只是 - 我不会发表评论。
问：你说你不相信酷刑，但这是一种策略 -
多发性硬化症。PERINO: I'm not -- I appreciate it. I am not commenting on it.
Q Are you saying we have not tortured?
多发性硬化症。佩里诺：这就是我的意思。
Q How can you say that? In every report --
Q Dana, has the Vice President's influence in this administration waned in recent months? Do you think he's as influential as he has -- he was at the beginning?
多发性硬化症。PERINO: I think that the storyline that a lot of people have tried to explore, I have not witnessed it myself. He was there today at the meeting with the Estonians and he was there last week when we met with the President of Vietnam, and I see him regularly. He was actually there at the SVTS this morning with Prime Minister Maliki. He's influential, his staff is good to work with, and we enjoy having him around.
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